Meet Marisa Meckstroth: Hospitality Director at Wren Hop Vineyards
This interview has been edited for clarity and was featured in the August 9, 2023 of Merobebe.
Merobebe
Let’s kick off with your go-to bottle of wine when you want to treat yourself.
Marisa Meckstroth
Oh wow. What a hard question. If I can get my hands on it, my splurge would be on Devil Proof. It’s a high elevation Malbec from Sonoma County and I truly have not had one that was less than 10/10. It’s velvety with ripe red and black fruit, a beautiful bouquet, and elegance. It makes me feel like I’m wearing a ball gown going to the Met Gala. Now that I mention it… I might have to open a bottle.
Merobebe
If you could have any job in the wine industry (besides your current one), what would it be and why?
Marisa Meckstroth
I’d like to be a wine & spirits consultant. I love a well-curated drink/wine list and it’d be amazing to collaborate with other creative food and wine lovers to create something unique. There is so much out there, so many up and coming regions producing interesting wines and spirits, there is so much to explore. Plus, I get to travel and enjoy some of the best restaurants which is my ulterior motive for this career.
Merobebe
What is your favorite wine-related book or movie?
Marisa Meckstroth
My favorite wine movie is Uncorked (which I believe you have mentioned in this newsletter before) on Netflix. It hit me in the heart because while I personally didn’t have anyone discouraging me from the wine industry I do understand the tough decision to go into an industry that’s very foreign to many people. One that hasn’t been particularly welcoming to BIPOC either. This industry is intimidating especially when you don’t see a lot of people that look like you in it and no one you know is in it. It’s inspiring to see media that portrays the real concerns and challenges you face as a BIPOC in the industry.
Merobebe
Tell us a little bit about Wren Hop!
Marisa Meckstroth
We're a small production, family owned winery [in Windsor, CA]. We only produce about 1,000 cases a year, so super small production chardonnay and pinot noir. Our pinots are known to be very opulent, very fruit forward. We do a cold soak, we pick late – we call them pinots for cab drinkers because they have a lot of depth and complexity to them.
But honestly, I love our chardonnay. I think that chardonnays are very underrated. We do one chardonnay a year, and I think that our winemaker just always really shows his technique with our chardonnay. Because chardonnay is a super versatile grape, right? There's a lot of things that he could do with it, but each year it just comes out I think the best thing it could possibly be.I love the winery and have been there for five years. It's a really small team. I go and hand sort the grapes during harvest…I hate it. I hate sorting. It's so cool to be a part of the process, but I absolutely hate bugs and we farm from all organic vineyards, so there are tons of bugs.
Merobebe
What is harvest like?
Marisa Meckstroth
Our crews go out into our vineyard at night. The cooler temperatures at nighttime allow the grapes to kind of go to sleep and start to stop producing sugars. You also want to pick at night so that the grapes won’t be sitting out in the sun or they'll start fermenting in the bins, which is something that you really don't want.
All of our vineyards are planted on hillsides, so we don't have tractors or anything that can really go through there. All of the management is hand done. Crews are out there all the time – hand pruning, all of that kind of stuff. And then we go and hand sort the grapes. They go onto a conveyor belt and you're just standing at this conveyor belt, picking out bunches that don't look good or are underripe, sticks, leaves, lizards. Oh, my gosh, I hate it.
There are so many spiders and earwigs and ants and oh, my gosh, I hate it so much. Every year, every time I leave, I’m covered in grape must and I feel like bugs are crawling on me. I immediately need to take a shower. But again, it's really cool, though, to have my hands physically on that wine. It's really cool. I tell people that all the time. I'm like, Listen, I had blood, sweat, and tears put into this specific bottle of wine. You're going to appreciate that.
Merobebe
That is so cool. I honestly don’t know if I could handle the bugs.
Marisa Meckstroth
It's difficult. It really is. And the first year that I did it – you're on a conveyor belt, so it's disorienting to stare at, right? So I'm standing at this conveyor belt trying to focus on these bunches. I'd never done it before. I didn't really know anything about wine at the time or vineyards or grape clusters, so I was really trying to focus to make sure I didn't mess up. All of a sudden, boop! A huge stick bug lands on my arm just out of nowhere.I scream. I scream, all production stops – heavy machinery, forklifts – everything stops. Everybody realizes what happened and has a good chuckle about it. I'm sitting there red faced, so embarrassed, and I look across the table and Jim, the owner, is doubled over in tears, laughing, because he threw the bug at me! He threw it and I was like, Yeah, okay, keep laughing. When I quit, it’ll be because I'm stressed out about these bugs!
But yeah, so that was my very first harvest experience which is absolutely hilarious. I’ve done every one over the past four years and this will be my fifth.
The tasting room at Wren Hop Vineyards in Napa Valley. Image courtesy of Wren Hop Vineyards
Merobebe
What’s your approach to pairing wine and food?
Marisa Meckstroth
I always say this: Wine is subjective, and you don't actually need to know a lot about it. You really just need to know if you like it or not. You know what I mean? It's just really about the way it feels on your palate. Some people really like those very big, buttery chardonnays. They like the way that feels on their palate. A lot of people don't – as people in the wine industry know, a lot of people do not like that style of chardonnay. But again, some people love it, that's what they prefer.
So it's really about the way that the wine and the food connect with you and your palate. Traditionally, more ethnic foods – I guess you could say like curries and gumbo and adobo and stuff like that – are not paired with wines. They're not top of mind because those cultures aren't immersed in the wine industry and wine culture. For example, there's not a huge wine industry in Thailand and Thailand isn't a huge importer of fine wine.I think people are a little afraid to experiment with those types of dishes, especially when all of the rules are like, stay away from spicy food, stay away from this, stay away from that. All of these things have those strong flavors that represent their culture, and you can pair wines with that! It's just a matter of trying it out. You just have to experiment with the textures and the flavors. And I like that I'm seeing more people experiment, especially on social media. More people are like, This goes really well with these tacos, and this goes really well with this sushi, and this goes really well with this and that. People are just getting so much more creative, which is what I really like to see.
Even when I first started in the wine industry about five years ago, you constantly heard those rules – like what grows together goes together, red goes with meat, whites go with fish, and stuff like that. Since then, it's been more of a kind of pivot to, Oh, well, this is more interesting. How can I incorporate that into my program?
Merobebe
I feel like even today, whenever there is any sort of spicy food, the automatic pairing is an off-dry Riesling. Like, we're just going to put the sweet wine and the spicy food together.
Marisa Meckstroth
Oh my gosh. Every time. And it's not a bad pairing! It's not. It's fine. It's good.
There's more there – it gets repetitive. You get a little tedious with the pairings, you know what I mean? It makes wine so much more fun when you're willing to experiment like that. And like I said before, what's the worst that could happen? It just doesn't go together. Okay, oh well, just drink water during the meal and enjoy the wine after or vice versa. You know what I mean? People always feel like, Oh, I wasted this wine because it doesn't pair. Well, did you, though? Did you feel like you're wasting your experience? Nothing is going to waste here unless you make it waste.
Merobebe
Look, I'll come drink your wine for you if you need help!
Marisa Meckstroth
Exactly, I got you. I will sacrifice for you.
There's maybe this sense of – because it's been drilled in, like red goes with meat, white goes with fish, and it's kind of seen as this snobby, Oh, well this is how we do wine and if you do it wrong, you're an idiot and you don't know what you're talking about. Because of that, people are maybe scared to experiment. Or when it doesn’t go the way they thought, when the pairing goes wrong, they think I must be really bad at this, I don’t know wine, I don’t know food. And then they just kind of take a step back and go back to the simple, okay, I'm just going to stick with my cab at the steak house.
I tell people in the tasting room all the time because – we do private tastings so it's just them and I. They get to ask whatever questions they want and I have a limited amount of time to explain it to them. People are always like, I'm sorry, we just don't really know wine that well. And I'm like, Don't worry about it, that's what I'm here for. Don't worry about that kind of stuff, because it's all about what you like and what you prefer. That's what makes this industry fun. That's what makes food and wine fun, is that preference of, I really like these interesting things.
What can I try that's new? That's why people love new restaurants and these young chefs, because they're combining all of these flavors and preparations and stuff like that that's creating a new experience for people. And you can do the same thing with wine but people get scared of that. They're like, Oh, well, what if this doesn't go well? But that's okay. It's not the end of the world, I swear. It's partly like how people might like different foods. You can like different wines. Or maybe you try a new recipe, and it doesn't quite turn out the way you hoped, but that doesn't mean that you can't try again or that means it was bad, maybe it just wasn't for you.
Merobebe
Right! Sometimes, you just don’t like a dish even though your friend loves it. It’s just not for you and the same can happen with wine, but I think people understand that with food more.
Marisa Meckstroth
I think food is just more approachable to people cause it's everywhere, right? People really focus on that because it's easier to digest, no pun intended. And it's something you can see – you can see what the ingredients are, so you kind of have an idea of what it's going to taste like before you actually put it in your mouth.With wine, when you’re smelling it, you're really relying on your memory to identify those flavors. I think people get freaked out by that because they're like, Oh my gosh, I didn't even know that this is strawberry. But it's just what it smells like to me! I mean, if it smells like cherry to you, that's not wrong. You're not incorrect. Now, if you're drinking a pinot and you start saying, I taste peaches, that's a different discussion altogether. But it’s not like you’re wrong. You're never wrong. It's just a matter of opinion.
I've had people tell me that, We drink pinot with our fish. We don't care. Perfect, great! If that is what tastes good to you, then do that. But as far as more ethnic foods go, it's harder because, again, they don't really have that culture. It's not like the food is made for the wine like it is in France and Italy. They really make food with wine in mind, whereas Thai food, Indian food, Filipino food, African food – they don't consider that. It's a lot of spice and a lot of flavor, and there are wines that can stand up to that and there are wines that really complement that well.
I also think a lot of people just don't eat enough of those types of foods. Go out and have some chicken adobo, just try it! That's what makes food and wine so fun because there's so much exploration that you can do. It's really never ending. And there's so much to learn – there's so much history and culture behind all of this stuff that it seems criminal to not experiment and explore that side of food and wine!
Merobebe
What are some of your favorite “unusual” food and wine pairings?
Marisa Meckstroth
I love curry and a medium bodied chardonnay, because the acid in the chardonnay kind of cuts through the creaminess of the curry, but the softer body balances out the spice. I absolutely love that pairing. I drink our chardonnay with curry constantly.
The other day I made a burrata and stone fruit salad, so nectarines and peaches and cherries with olive oil and sherry vinegar. And I paired it with this wine made by Ryme Cellars – small producer, husband and wife winemaking team, really great wines. They make a sangiovese, friulano blend. It's red and white grapes, which you don't really ever see, and it's obviously way darker than a rosé but you serve it chilled like a rosé. It's very refreshing and it still has that little depth of red fruit. So it really went well with the salad and the richness of the fruit, but it's still acidic from the friulano so it cut through that burrata really well, too.
I also like pinot noir and adobo. Not a super acid driven pinot, but more of a medium to full bodied pinot. The tannin helps round off the acidity from the vinegar and the adobo, and it’s a soft enough body to balance out that spice. Those would be my favorites.
Image courtesy of Wren Hop Vineyards
Merobebe
What do you find the most fascinating about wine - what really drew you into the industry?
Marisa Meckstroth
When I first started at Wren Hop, I was working at a restaurant and I knew next to nothing about wine, pretty much just the sound bites we had for the wines by the glass. I was only concerned with whether I liked it or not. Jim [the owner of Wren Hop] was kind enough to gift me the Wine Bible by Karen McNeil during my first week here. He tasked me with reading the winemaking section to understand the basics to start out. I couldn’t put it down. I was so consumed by how much detail and nuance was required to produce fine wine. Who knew that the way the vineyards face on the hillside directly affects their flavor? No one was going to tell me that the size of the rocks in the soil is a determining factor in choosing a varietal to plant? Suddenly I had so many questions I needed answers to.
Then I realized how much care went into each bottle of wine. Shortly after I started in the tasting room, I experienced my first harvest. Can you imagine the confusion I experienced when Jim asked me to come sort grapes at 7 am? I have to touch bugs with my hands? Yuck. And yet you’ll still see me at the sorting table for my 5th harvest at Wren Hop this year. Being a part of that process makes you realize that this liquid we drink for our leisure has intention and hard work behind it. I had my hands on the grapes in your glass, I put work into that bottle of wine. I braved bugs for that bottle of wine! Talk about keeping me interested.
Now I can’t stop talking about wine. Ask anyone I know – if the subject of wine comes up be prepared for a mini lecture and if that would get on your nerves don’t even think about bringing me into a wine shop.
Merobebe
Conversely, what is the one thing you could really do without?
Marisa Meckstroth
The lack of access to education. I don’t think people understand how expensive getting an “official” education in wine is. You need significant disposable income. I recently took the WSET 3 and the course itself was over $1K and that doesn’t include any extra wine or study materials that you need to be able to pass. That’s thousands of dollars a year even if you only buy wine under $40.
You can’t just get financial aid like going to college. Even if you’re lucky enough to have a job that pays for the test itself, it’s still unlikely that it’s going to pay for the wine and books and if they do… keep that job.
The only reason I was able to pursue it is because I had a lot of support from my family. But having people around that could provide that sort of support is just luck. People who are living paycheck to paycheck or have to work 2 jobs don’t have the extra money to spend on all this wine or even the time and energy to study. You aren’t going to choose wine over paying a bill (hopefully). That’s why I encourage every person I know to donate to organizations like The Roots Fund.
The saddest part about this is that BIPOC have amazing palates! Just look at all the food we make, the diversity of flavors and textures are all applicable to how we taste wine as well. It’s so unfortunate that people don’t have the opportunity to explore something that they might really enjoy.I love seeing people pairing wine with curry and gumbo. Those are dishes that aren't typically associated with wine pairings because the cultures that those dishes come from don’t traditionally pair wine with their food. But I find that boring. So I’m happy to see that there are wine professionals out there that are expanding everyone’s palates and getting really creative.
Merobebe
What are some challenges you’ve faced as a woman in the white male-dominated field of sommeliers?
Marisa Meckstroth
The main challenge I’ve noticed is I feel as if I have to constantly prove I know what I’m talking about or my authority being questioned. When a single demographic has dominated an industry for so long, people start to overvalue their own opinions. I’ve been “corrected" with outdated information. I’ve had guests try to bully me into free wine. Although, I’ve been fortunate enough to not have many of those stories but they have happened and will continue to. And unfortunately (for them), I am not an easy person to intimidate. Jim, the owner of Wren Hop and my boss, really encouraged me to always be confident. “You know what you’re talking about, don’t let anyone make you question your knowledge.”
Confidence is key when you’re a young black woman in the wine industry but there is a very fine line for us to tow. Because if we get a little too loud, a little too confrontational, a little too “ghetto” anything we say doesn’t matter anymore. However, I’m not a believer in respectability politics. I know what I’m talking about, if you don’t like the way I present that information, then you and I just weren’t meant to be and that’s ok. A quote I live by is “You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the orchard and there will still be someone that doesn’t like peaches.”
Merobebe
If you’re comfortable sharing, what’s your ethnic background?
Marisa Meckstroth
I am black, white and Filipino and I grew up between Sonoma County and Monterey. I spent the majority of my upbringing in Monterey and then we moved up here my senior year of high school.
My high school [in Monterey] was pretty diverse. I would say it was mostly Black, Asian Pacific Islander and Latino. There were very few white people that I can remember at that school. I grew up in a really diverse group of friends. Sonoma County is definitely a lot different than that. There is definitely less diversity. When I first went to high school here, I was one of five black people out of three hundred in my graduating class – and I'm mixed, so not even 100% black. So that’s saying something. Not super diverse.
And then coming into this industry, even less diverse in that sort of way.It's been an adjustment for sure because sometimes, I have to code switch and I forget who I'm talking to. I've been going to more wine tasting events recently, and obviously a lot of the winemakers themselves are white and usually male. If it's a woman, she’s usually a sales rep or something. Even the other attendees, even though there's a lot of women, usually everyone's white.
Merobebe
I remember once at a wine tasting, an older guy came up and started explaining the wines to a woman winemaker I was there with. She tried to politely explain that she was the winemaker, but he kept going on and on, explaining her wine to her. She was so polite and patient while I was about to lose my shit!
Marisa Meckstroth
I have no patience for that, I have no grace for that kind of stuff, especially after you already explained your position. Luckily at Wren Hop, this has been very few and far between, but I've had a few instances where people try to test their boundaries with me. I’m not a good person to do that. I have strong boundaries, and I'm not afraid to tell you to get out. Really, it’s to protect my sanity. If I just let every single person talk to me any kind of way, how am I supposed to survive in this industry?
So this one time – we wax the tops of the bottles instead of putting foil on. We hand wax them. And one time, this guy was like, Why do you wax the bottles? I said, Well, it's an aesthetic choice. It kind of goes with the whole theme of the winery and the labels and stuff. He was like, You know, that does nothing to the wine. Like…yeah! It’s on the outside of the bottle. But I’m like, Thank you so much, moving right along. I tried to change the subject, but he brings it up again. So I said, again, it’s an aesthetic choice.
And then he brought it up a third time and I was like, okay. So what's the difference between wax and foil? And he was like, Well, doesn't a foil do this, this and that? No, it doesn't do any of that. Some wines don't even have foil. Why are you arguing with me about this? It's just wax. Like, over the smallest thing. It's not even over the quality of the wine. It's literally over the packaging. That's crazy.
This guy told me one time that we need to do better with our chardonnay. That's crazy. What? Like, okay, you can not like the wine. That's totally fine. I don't take that personally. Again, it's so subjective. It's really up to your palate. You can totally not like the wine, but to sit here and try to tell us how to make wine differently to fit your palate specifically. That's crazy!
People start overvaluing their opinions once they feel like they've drank enough wine or they talk to enough people or they’ve done enough wine tastings, they have a big enough cellar. All of a sudden, your opinion is the end all be all. No, it's not. Sorry to break it to you. I hate that I have to be the one to break it to you. But it's not. That's what bothers me a lot too, is that people aren't open to being wrong. It's okay to not know something. It's okay to be corrected with something. It's okay to get more information and change your mind. That's okay.
I think people are so afraid of being wrong that they don't want to ever concede a point because they don't want to be wrong so badly. What does that do for anybody? What does that do for you? Like, I’m telling you, this is the way we make this wine. This is why we make it this way. It's okay to not like it, but for you to sit here and tell me to change it because you specifically don't like it. That's crazy.
I've had people try to bully me into free wine. No way. No. We only make a thousand cases. I'm not giving you a bottle of wine for free! That's crazy. You can't bully me into this. I don't know who you thought you were talking to. And Jim, from the very beginning when I first started there, he always instilled confidence in me. He was like, You know what you're talking about, don't let people tell you you're wrong. Don't ever let people tell you you're wrong because you're not. You know these wines better than anybody. You can't let them bully you. In the tasting room, you want to make a good impression and you want to sell wine. And so at the beginning, you kind of let people push you around because you want to make a good impression. But he was like No, I don't care about that. If somebody treats you bad, get them out of here.
My first year working there, this guy came in who was very off putting, very rude. I didn't kick them out or anything, but after the tasting I was like, I could never see them again, you know? And I called Jim and was telling him about it, and he was like, Well, should we send them the wine? Because they bought wine. I was like, What do you mean? And he said, We all work really hard on these wines. If somebody was in here criticizing you and being mean to you, I don't want him to have our wines. And I was like, Oh my God. I've never had a boss have my back so vehemently before. At restaurants, if somebody yells at you, managers are apologizing to them! So it was really nice to have that. That's what really gives me the confidence to continue to do my job. I know that my boss has my back.
Merobebe
What do you think a more diverse wine industry would look like?
Marisa Meckstroth
I was actually talking to my boss about this today. Having people coming from different cultures, different perspectives, different realities really offers more depth to the industry. For instance, there's a woman in France, Marie-Ines Romelle, who makes Champagne with cane sugar for her discharge instead of grape sugar. I haven't had it, unfortunately, because she doesn't really import to the US. but from the notes and things that I've seen, it gives the wine lychee, pineapple, and papaya notes. She’s from the Caribbean, where there’s a huge sugar industry, so that's where she got that from. Who else is doing that? Somebody that's not from the Caribbean might not have thought of that. She's offering something new and exciting to the industry that nobody else is. That's the kind of thing that I would like to see in the future, where people are using their own personal perspectives and cultures to influence their wine.
Or like the indigenous winemakers that are starting to work with more indigenous grapes, that's really important, especially in this country. I think the way we've treated indigenous people and culture has basically been, So sorry for the genocide, but get over it. So for them to bring their culture and their history back into winemaking is really unique. And it’s not me being critical of white people specifically, it's just a matter of fact.
European winemaking has been going on for a really long time. They have their standards, they have their way that they do it, the terroir that they want to achieve, stuff like that. All great, all dandy. That's why France is the granddaddy of winemaking. But there's other things you can do. There's other perspectives to be had, or other winemaking techniques.
For example, somebody with minimal resources because of the demographic they are a part of might come up with something innovative just because they had to because of their lack of resources. And people get bored with wine. Sometimes it's repetitive, and eventually you're going to have to pivot and eventually you're going to have to do something new. It's just not sustainable if you don't. And as the country and the world is becoming more diverse and has more cultural awareness, more and more of those perspectives can be can influence the wine industry and make it more appealing also for other people of color, because it's very intimidating.
Nobody that I know personally was in the wine industry before I started. But now I've introduced my friends to all types of different wines, so now my friends who are people of color are now into wine, and it's just about spreading awareness. And like I said before, people of color have amazing palates. Just look at our food! We naturally just have amazing palates, so it's a crime that more people of color aren't in wine because we have such great palates.
I want to see more creativity, more perspectives, more like, I came from this really rough place, but I figured out how to make this wine and get into this. It’s another reason why I really like The Roots Fund and organizations like that because it introduces people to wine as well. It’s not just for people of color who are already in the industry and are already immersed. It's for people who are trying to get into it and just don't have the resources to do so. I want to see way more people of color in the industry. I think it would make it way more fun.
I've been to so many wine dinners that have great food, great wine, but the atmosphere is boring. It's like watching paint dry or watching grass grow. It's all these people talking about all of these places that they've gone to, but the way they're talking I'm like, Okay, I'm falling asleep right now. Of course I want to hear about your amazing trip to Bordeaux. But the way you're presenting this information is not connecting with me! And when you go to tasting rooms, it's classical music and lofi, like all this acoustic kind of stuff. I want to go to a tasting room that’s playing rap music to enjoy the wines!
I would have an amazing time if I went to a tasting room with Cardi B playing, and I'd buy so much wine – I'd buy cases. But that's what I mean. And that's another thing on the hospitality side of it, is giving diverse perspectives, offering different experiences so it’s not just, We're going to another food and wine pairing. Those are great and almost always good. But everything around it is so sterile! You know, people of color always have the best party. I'm biased.
Merobebe
We’ll open a winery that’s blasting rap and the food and wine pairing will be wine with adobo.
Marisa Meckstroth
I love that idea. How do we do that?
Merobebe
When you have people of color making wine, there’s going to be more opportunity for them to create wines that pair with the rich, flavorful foods they make! I met a Japanese winemaker [of Noria Wines] who started winemaking specifically to pair with Japanese food.
Marisa Meckstroth
Exactly. It would be so fascinating if there were more people from Africa, from Mexico, from the Philippines, who feel welcome in the wine industry and it ties back into the diversity of food pairings. A Thai person knows Thai food the best. They know exactly what it's supposed to taste like, so they can make wine that goes with Thai food perfectly. That’s just not a perspective that somebody not from that culture will have.
Wine is supposed to tell a story, and having a person of color who doesn't have a wine background telling their story would make the wine so much more interesting as well. And it is way more fun to know the people behind it.No hate on the big name brands and companies, but when you come to a place like Wren Hop where we're really hands on, we're really into the wine, this is truly something that we're passionate about, that sticks in your head, in your heart, so, so much deeper than, My great grandfather was into wine and my great grandfather imported wine for Kermit Lynch. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. But it shouldn’t just be that perspective. So it makes me sad that people of color don't even see wine as a viable [career] option, because this industry is fun.
It’s wine and food, how could you not have fun doing it?
Merobebe
Anything else you'd like to share?
Marisa Meckstroth
Check out The Hue Society, another organization providing mentorship and scholarships to people of color within the wine industry.
Also, if you can’t find an occasion to drink that special bottle of wine, make the wine the occasion. And never drink a good bottle of wine with bad people.