Meet Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt: Senior Marketing Manager at Vivino
This interview has been edited for clarity and was featured in the May 3, 2023 issue of Merobebe.
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
Hi, I'm Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt and I am the senior CRM manager for the U.S. at Vivino.
Merobebe
First of all, I feel like everyone is obsessed with Vivino. Every time I go to the wine store, there’s someone scanning bottles on the Vivino app.
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
Yes, I personally was a long time Vivino user before I started working there. They were one of the few brands that could steal me away from my [previous] position because I love the product so much and I've been such an active user. But yeah, it's a great app for people who aren't familiar with it.
It is a label recognition in software that also is combined with community ratings. So you'll scan a bottle and it'll pull up all the information you might need about that wine – where it's from, its vintage flavor profile, things like that. And then it also has what real wine drinkers think about the wine with reviews and ratings. Over time, the app also gets to understand your personal palate based on your reviews so it can even recommend wine.
Merobebe
That's awesome. It's like Netflix, but for wine.
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
Exactly. The recommendation engines are very similar here.
Merobebe
So a few little icebreakers. What is your favorite non-wine beverage? What are you drinking now while you’re pregnant?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
So historically, I would say black coffee. I'm a huge, huge coffee person. I joke that I drink coffee until it's time to drink wine, and then I drink wine and drink coffee. But I've had to cut back on that, so I've been doing a lot of sparkling water and a lot of nonalcoholic kombucha. That’s how I'm getting my fun drink fix while I'm pregnant.
Merobebe
What’s the first bottle of wine you’re going to drink?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
Oh, yes. I have a bottle that I've had on hand since 2018. It's a 2017 vintage of a producer that I absolutely adore from Bordeaux. My husband and I went in person, got to tour the winery, got to get to know the family that runs it. It’s been sitting in my wine fridge for years and that is the one that I'm going to celebrate with – both because it's an incredible wine, but it’s also from the trip where my husband and I got engaged. So there is a little bit of a personal memory there and I am really excited to open that one.
Merobebe
If you could have any celebrity as your personal sommelier, who would it be?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
So I don't know if this is cheating because she is in the wine industry, but I would definitely pick Pink because of her wine – I've never had it, but it's apparently fantastic. She was also a customer at a previous company that I worked for, so I know what kind of wine she consumes and it's a lot of really, really cool, hard to find French wines with small allocations.
I think that she has a really cool palate. She's making really cool wine. So I would definitely trust her with any wine that she recommended me to try.
Merobebe
Of course, Pink would have a cool palate! Okay, so let's back up. What first interested you in wine? What made you want to actually work in wine?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
I've always been really passionate about wine and my dad is really into wine. I'm from the Bay Area originally, and growing up we would often spend weekends in Napa and Sonoma – my brother and I would be playing on the lawn at a winery. It's always been something that's part of my life.
When I left California and went to NYU for college, Napa wine was an opportunity to stay connected to home. It's this celebration of the bounty of California in a way that is also really fun to drink. So I've always been really interested in the wine industry and in local wine, but the way I ended up in the industry was honestly by accident.
Somebody reached out a position to a colleague of mine at the company where I started my career. She basically said, I think I'm a little senior for this, but I have a really young, hungry colleague who I think would be a great fit. It was an e-commerce wine company and that's how I ended up in the wine industry.
Merobebe
What a fun way to just fall into it!
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
I totally fell into it. I was lucky that I had the technical expertise that they were looking for and the background of loving wine, being really passionate about it and being interested in trying wines I'd never had before. So it was a great fit in that regard.
Merobebe
Was it because of that job that you decided to pursue your WSET (Wine and Spirits Education Trust) levels? When did that all start?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
Yes. I was very lucky that the company really prioritized wine knowledge through every part of the business. They felt that it was just as important for people who are sourcing wine to have a really robust wine knowledge as it was for the person marketing the wine, as it was for the customer support person who is answering questions from customers.
That company actually sponsored the whole team to get our WSET Level 1 certifications and from there, because I passed with the highest tier, I petitioned them and said that I would be really interested in continuing to pursue this. I think it makes me better at my job as a wine marketer, and they agreed and sponsored me to get my Level 2. Then during the pandemic, I ended up pursuing my Level 3 as well, which was much more intense.
Levels 1 and 2, I think I didn't really need to to study, in a way – I could have probably walked in and done okay. But Level 3 was a lot. There was an essay portion, multiple choices. There was a blind tasting. So that was certainly a fun way to stay occupied during the pandemic.
I was really lucky that the company that I worked for really prioritized wine education, and I'm also lucky that Vivino saw my wine certification as a huge asset and a huge reason to to bring me on board.
Merobebe
How has that helped you with wine marketing?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
My primary job realistically is any sort of email notification or SMS that you're getting from Vivino, so for me to have a really robust understanding of wine, of wine regions, of flavor profiles and palates helps me do a better job of deciding who is the right audience for a particular wine.
For example, if it’s about a Bordeaux, it’s not just, have you purchased a French wine? Have you purchased a wine at this price point? Instead, I can go, Okay, this wine is characteristically a lot like a Napa cab, so maybe we’ll include some Napa cab buyers.
It helps me to help my customers expand their palates and expand their wine world. Bringing that knowledge helps me better serve customers and help them explore the world of wine – so that they don’t have to get all of these certifications themselves!
The Vivino algorithm is really, really cool in that it can dish up wine that is right within [the profile of] what you already know that you love. Then, that’s where the human element of myself and the people that I work with on the wine sourcing team, we can bring in a little bit of that wine knowledge that a computer can't necessarily quantify and say, okay, you’re already getting wine that you know you're going to like. Let me show you some things that you might not have on your radar. Let me show you this Serbian wine. You drink a lot of Napa chardonnay? Let me show you some French chardonnay, see if that might be something that you're interested in. That's something that, as great as some of these algorithms can be, there still needs to be that human touch, that human element of understanding of wine.
Merobebe
Do you think you'll ever get your diploma, your WSET Level 4?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
Yeah. I've been thinking about it. It's a lot of work, especially between my full time job and now a baby on the way. I don't think it's going to happen this year, but it is something that I think would be that final final step in my wine education.
I'm certainly not going to pursue a Master of Wine – all the power in the world to the people who do pursue it. That's one step too far for me. But I do think I would like to pursue my diploma just to really round it out and go from advanced level knowledge to expert level knowledge. I think that would be really exciting.
Merobebe
Have you worked in restaurants before or like in a bar or wine bar?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
No. Well, yes, but no, not in a meaningful sort of wine way. I was the hostess at the Macaroni Grill when I was in high school. So, yes, I have worked in restaurants. But no, I didn't come from being a sommelier or working somewhere with a really robust wine list.
Merobebe
So as someone who's worked more on the corporate side of the wine industry, have you seen or experienced any biases or stereotypes against women in wine?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
I think the thing that is really tough when we're talking about women in wine is making sure that they are celebrated as women who are making their way in a male dominated field without being tokenized. I think we see that happen sometimes, where somebody’s crowning achievement is that she's a woman in wine – which is exciting and is hard and should be celebrated. But we should also make sure that her actual achievements that got her there are what we're really discussing: her winemaking ability, or the investments that she's made, not just that she is a woman who works in wine. She's a very cool person who is a woman and has made her way in a male dominated field, and that's worth celebrating.
I certainly feel like historically, when I've gone to tastings or events with a male counterpart, my opinion, especially as a young woman, is not always as considered – or I'm not assumed to necessarily be as knowledgeable as I am.
We've even had instances where I've gone to a tasting with my husband and people will talk directly to him about the wine when he couldn't tell the difference between a pinot and a cab if his life depended on it!
Merobebe
He's like, “this is red.”
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
Yeah! I make all of the wine decisions for the household because he enjoys it, but he knows nothing about it.
So yes, I think there is a bias. There are so many biases pervasive across the board within the wine industry going from the macro level, like women not having a lot of seats at the table at major wineries, to the micro level of seeing a young woman and assuming that she is not knowledgeable about wine.
Merobebe
To your point about tokenism, whenever someone celebrates a male winemaker, they talk about the qualities of the wine instead of just the fact that he’s made the wine. It’s not exciting just because a man made wine but it’s about the wine itself! It would be fantastic to get to a point where it's like that for women as well.
In addition, because of these biases, I think it affects how people perceive wines made from women as well. There’s this huge pressure for women to make these excellent, amazing wines or do marvelous work in wine because they have to represent every single woman in the industry.
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
That's such a good point. There’s this expectation of excellence that realistically – when you're reading about wine or you get an email from Vivino about a wine, there will be various men mentioned that are involved in making the wine or owning the winery. Whenever women are featured, it's because they've created something really, really, really exceptional, which of course should be celebrated. But there should also be pathways into becoming part of the wine conversation that isn't just, Oh, she was the Screaming Eagle winemaker, or something like that. There are so many different avenues that should be celebrated and not all wine can be Screaming Eagle, but it still has value, right?
Merobebe
Exactly. We need wines at all price points and just because you really like a wine doesn't mean someone else is going to like it. We need more women making wine so that there’s something for all of us. Including your husband, even if he doesn't know what he's drinking.
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
Exactly.
Merobebe
There’s currently this veil of exclusivity around wine, like you have to be rich and you have to be in the old boys club and be fancy. This image of fine wine that you have to have only on special occasions, not just sitting at home on a Tuesday and opening a glass of wine. How do you think that the wine industry can better address the issue of affordability?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
One of the things that I really encourage as a way to escape some of that perception of wine as this special occasion thing is to take as many opportunities as possible to consume it across all price points, across all regions and get out of thinking, Oh, the world is only Napa, only cab, and only over $100. Those wines have value. I have a lot of them in my personal collection. I love those wines, but there are also incredible wines coming out of Chile at under $10 that are world class. Not to plug Vivino, but I think a brand like Vivino or the concept of what Vivino is trying to accomplish is really important.
It's the democratization of wine, right? It's not just, What is [famous wine critic] Robert Parker saying that you should drink? It's, What does everybody in your community think about these wines? And you'll see quite often that some of these big labels don't always stand up in the ratings compared to smaller producers or wines from regions that are lower price points.
I think getting access to what the average person feels about wine helps all of us to shift the way that we think and how we define a “good wine,” because it shouldn't just be in the hands of a few reviewers like it has been historically. Realistically, up until this point, there have been a few very powerful people with very powerful pens who have told all of us what we should think about wine, which brands matter, and honestly, even what flavor profiles are good versus bad, just because that's that person's particular palate.
So democratizing wine is really important. Try wine from all over, talk to people about their wine, look at community ratings, look at community discussions about wine. It'll help you uncover wines that you maybe wouldn't have even thought to try. And it'll help you maybe find your new favorite in a price point that you can't even believe.
Merobebe
What’s the best way to get the most out of Vivino?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
I would say, download Vivino at a time – I mean download Vivino whenever, but -
Merobebe
You mean download it right now! *laughter*
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
Yes, right now! Download it at a time when you already know that you're going to be trying a couple of wines, or you're planning on opening a wine that you already know that you love, or if you're going wine tasting. Just start to feed it with information about you, feed it with information about your palate, and it will start to understand stylistically what you like – not just within the confines of, This is a Napa Chardonnay but realistically, What does the wine taste like? The algorithm is smart enough to know that, and then it can recommend things in that same flavor profile.
So the hack would definitely be scan: Scan often, rate often, and be honest with how you feel about wines.
I started using Vivino very early in my wine journey and I would give basically everything a five, which is fine, but it definitely took a little bit of time for my algorithm to really adjust to what I actually like and consume on a regular basis. I'm quite a few years older than 21 and what I appreciate in wine has changed since then…
So use it often, be honest about what you do and don't like, and then you will start to see recommendations come through of producers you may not have heard of, but are a 100% match for your palate.
Merobebe
Amazing. I'm going to have to become a Vivino power user now! Do people get Vivino power user rankings?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
You do get ranked within your market. All the markets that we're in, you can actually see that you are number 1,000 in the U.S. or whatever. I consider myself a super user and it’s wild, I'm like in the thousands. Sometimes I'll come across a review from somebody who's ranked like number five in the U.S. and I'm like, I can't think about how much wine you're probably drinking, but I really want to see what you have to say about this!
Merobebe
To be a super user, you have to be scanning different wines, right? You can’t just scan the same wine over and over again.
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
Yes, you can't just scan your Charles Shaw every time. I think it's a combination of the number of wines rated and scanned. So I do think both for your ranking on Vivino and for the sake of your palate, try lots of different stuff, scan lots of different stuff. You'll have a better experience anyway that way.
Merobebe
Any final tips for people who want to continue expanding their palate and learning more about wine?
Shannon Coulson Jörgenfelt
My wine education has really changed my life. It’s changed the way that I think about wine. It's changed the way that I think about the wine industry. Something that I would really recommend is to see if you have a local wine school and think about taking a class. Most are just one day. Think about signing up for a tasting of wines from a region that you've never heard of. Do whatever you can to get to understand the industry a little bit more and get to understand the science behind wine a little bit more.
And if going to or paying for a class isn’t accessible, there are so many really cool people making wine content and sharing their education and their understanding for free on sites like YouTube and TikTok. Find a couple of people who match your palate, follow them, and see what they're saying about wine and help it guide your journey.
Basically just continue to try to educate yourself, continue to try to explore. The wine world is so big. We will never drink all the wine there is to try. You'll never try every style that there is. So next time you go to the grocery store, try a region that you haven't tried before or try a varietal that you haven't had recently and let that kind of inform your journey.